Annexations and Bad Information
Battle Underway in Annexations of Unincorporated South Fulton County
The west side of Atlanta is seeing it’s first all out skirmish for land since the Battle of Utoy Creek in August 1864 as part of the Atlanta Campaign during the Civil War. This modern day struggle is not being fought with weapons, but with lies and half truths coming from the City of Atlanta Administration. Atlanta has designs on rustling the senior citizens of the Loch Lomond Subdivision into their grasp. There are tales of seniors being told they have no choice and have to sign the petition for annexation into Atlanta. Phone banks commanded by  city enthusiasts are making calls raising questions about the viability of the Proposed City of South Fulton that is on the ballot in November.
Meanwhile the Sandtown Community Association is floating survey results that can’t be verified as well as boasting that 25% of the respondents want to be left unincorporated. Being left unincorporated is not an option if the city hood vote fails and the SCA knows that, but chose to give respondents that false impression. What the annexation proponents are not saying is if they are annexed the home values in the area will drop in the very near future. The drop in housing values will be precipitated by the two empty schools Randolph ES and Sandtown MS. Atlanta Public Schools has made it known that they do not want those facilities because they have no use for them. Thus they will be closed sitting idle like a vacant shopping center that kills the surrounding community.
Further Atlanta does not have the Public Safety infrastructure to pick up the additional communities. Currently, Atlanta pays Fulton County to provide fire services to the homes in the “West Cascade” community and that includes Mayor Kasim Reeds home. The addition of Loch Lomond and Sandtown will only exacerbate that issue.
Back to Sandtown Community Association survey which appears to read more like push polling. Push polling is most commonly used during political campaigning, in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of voters under the guise of conducting a poll.
The “poll” asked about concerns of joining an existing city or creating a new one. The options were limited to three outcomes, all which were slanted for example – 63.7% responded they didn’t know who to trust about the pro’s and con’s of a new city; 28.57% responded they didn’t have enough facts to make an objective decision; 36.73% responded they didn’t have enough time to make a decision. What about including an option for those who know what they want to do? That’s not the point here, Sandtown wanted this to sound as though a new city of South Fulton was a bad idea and being annexed into Atlanta would be the answered – Not.
The concerns were even more remarkable. Respondents were given choices and they selected them. Again all the choices were designed to raise questions and throw shade on a City of South Fulton. 80.39% wondered about the economic viability; 72.55% concerned about budget shortfalls; 70.59% wondering who will run the city and the start up costs; 52.94% concerned about loss of services; 50.98% worried about the marketability of their home; 47.06% concerned about influence with the County and other cities; and finally 25.49% concerned about where would be City Hall and who would decide. Â
All the respondents have to do is follow these instructions 1) Read the Fulton County 2016 Budget regarding the South Fulton Special Services District and add $20 million to the bottom line and they would see the viability. 2) Budget shortfalls not a chance – See 1. 3) A resident of South Fulton will be the Mayor and because of the sweet heart deals that were given to Sandy Springs and others we get everything for the low, low price of a few hundred dollars per parks and a very cheap price for the equipment we’ve paid for over the last few years. 4) Marketability of your home – really. 5) Influence the City of South Fulton would be the third largest city in the county and sixth or seventh largest in the state. 6) Location of City Hall where ever the Mayor and City Council chooses.
The fight for annexations is real Atlanta is pulling out all stops. They are not precluded from lying and presenting false information to have their way. The millage rate in South Fulton is 11.579. On Atlanta’s annexation website, yes website they are using a comparison chart showing the rate at 12.469. Fulton County’s is 10.5 but is shown as 11.781 on the same site. It is up to us to beat back Atlanta’s lies with the facts and truth.
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We appreciate your post. Keep us informed.
At this point, I am not an advocate of any option . This posting is full of Unverifiable information. You will note it isn’t sighting any sources as it make claims.
I am disappointed with its tactics. Please continue with your educational training. It is a great strategy. Please stop posting misleading information it is a turn off for the undecided.
Remaining Unincorporated remains and option. Creating a new city is an option and annexation remains an option, even, after July 1st.
I ask and will continue to ask how is staying unincorporated an option when Atlanta has floated a bill and map showing the areas they would like to annex. In addition, State Rep Blackett Jones has presented a “Plan B” that would carve up the remaining unincorporated areas?
Tactics like the robot call seeking folks to sign petitions to join the city of Atlanta by scaring folks? That tactic is misleading. What abiut the City seeking ro recruit the businesses that we’ve made prosperous like Publix? That’s a dirty tactic by the Mayor and his administration.
Unverifiable from mouths of residents and the push poll results? Read the budget for yourself. Don’t ever take my word for anything. I beg of you take the time to read the information from Fulton County.
No.
Shame on you for continuously attempting to obstruct the people’s right to determine their own destiny through the annexation process.
Between 2015 and now, unincorporated south Fulton County has lost hundreds of acres of valuable commercial property.
In 2015, College Park annexed 274.985 acres of commercial property worth $38,327,300 along Naturally Fresh Boulevard and Buffington Road. This year, College Park received annexation petitions from Mannheim Atlanta Auto Auction and Coca-Cola totaling 142.7 acres of commercial property worth $32 million. And Atlanta received annexation petitions from Cascade Road businesses totaling 220.8 acres worth $50,535,270.
That is over $110 million in lost commercial tax base. That’s not just property taxes. It’s also sales taxes, business permits, building permits, alcohol permits — the list goes on and on and on. How is this city still viable?
Atlanta and College Park are giving these businesses a reason to go. Cityhood advocates, like yourself, have yet to give them a compelling reason to stay.
To paraphrase Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed, College Park and Atlanta are extending an opportunity to discuss the option of annexing into those established cities should businesses oppose being incorporated into the new City of South Fulton.
You cannot be mad at these businesses for doing what is best for them and their bottom-line. Clearly, a political science experiment pitched by failed also-ran candidates for office like Benny Crane isn’t exactly best for business. If it was, these businesses would have simply ignored the overtures of College Park and Atlanta.
First, i support local governance. I am a fan of freeze all annexatiins until the flaws of all options are addressed. No one should be demonized for exercising their rights to choose.
Don’t Atlanta have a right to solicit businesses to Annex? Don’t cityhood advocates have a right to solicit votes for a new city? Don’t property owners have a right to solicit others to annex? From my view, all are exercising their rights base on the laws of Georgia. We should be able to debate without the negativity.
I believe speaking to the feasibility study alone is not convincing enough. And, I dont think the plan presented by LBJ was submitted to the legislature. We can verify. That is my personal opinion and that is all.
I am all over the numbers in the feasibility study. The numbers do indicate that a new city is viable, but it doesn’t represent cost, currently, taken on by the county’s General Fund. As a result, the surplus is not accurate. We can discuss the details at some poit. I am more than happy to discuss and provide proof.
Remaining Unincorporated remains an option. A vote of No in November leaves us Unincorporated. The question is how long? I believe we have, at least 5 years. More than enough time to properly plan.
All annexation have been via petion of business land owners and majority property owners and voters. So then, stating that any city is ceasing land is misleading at best.
The unverifiable states I am speaking about is strong arming seniors into signing petitions. It is not a good look. If we have proof, I am quite sure people on the fence would love to see it.
Thanks for the response.
Speaking to the scare tactics. Aren’t you all doing the same. Or, the perception is that you all are doing the same thing. I am not saying either side is guilty, but the perception can be perceived to be the same
You have a point about all sides have rights. I don’t share the notion that we have time if the referendum fails. “Plan B” was not presented to the Legislature but to the cities in South Fulton.
When I said Atlanta is scaring seniors I heard that with my own ears in addition was told about a meeting they had arranged to tell them they had no choice. I have heard the robo call. If you have not taken the time to read and understand the options it is frightening. In addition, some of these annexations are meant to hurt the over all South Fulton community. In particular the annexation by Sandtown. Why does it need a park, Randolph ES and Sandtown MS? I’ve lived in that community and those pressing that annexation want nothing more than to damage Fulton Schools for personal reasons, thus hurting the over all South Fulton community.
As for the Feasibility Study it’s a base. What costs are you looking for? I have worked with government budgets for more than 25 years and I can show you using the Special Services District Budget that South Fulton is paying it’s way. There are no cost related to the General Funds Budget that we are not paying. The County has made sure of that. If you are worried about assets that’s not a big deal we are entitled to the same deal given to all the other cities as they incorporated. Those deals allowed them to start up right away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U1Jw1NBdf4
This link is the video I produced using Fulton County Budget numbers for the SSD South Fulton. All of the information is sourced. Because of the Shafer Amendment we are paying our way. That amendment forced the County to spend monies only in the area where it was collected thus we have been getting little or no help since 2006. The numbers are real. With the $18 – $25million LOST we have more than enough money to govern ourselves. On top of that as a city we are free to seek additional funds from the state and federal government for various projects and needs. There is a surplus.
At this point, I’m really concerned about the folks who say they don’t have enough information. They’ve basically had their heads in the sand. Since 2006, information has been shared by various groups. What I’ve been able to discern is a lot of them don’t think people of color can manage anything. Thus there reluctance to consider starting a city.
@James, thank you for the information. I TRULY enjoy a healthy discussion. So all, please keep our discussion as civil as possible. I agree that based on the numbers a new city is feasible. But, there are a number of other considerations we need to take into account to ensure we convince the undecided.
I think you missed the Annexation, Deannexation, & Incorporation that we sponsored in April. We had two finance representatives on the panel from Fulton County responsible for the Unincorporated SSD. The SSD does not pay all cost associated with a new city. More importantly, they did openly state there are a number of budget items exclusively covered by the Fulton County’s General Fund. I have the raw footage and will work hard on getting that out to attendees and all of the supporting backups.
My ask in this discussion and has been the same for two years is to provide a proposed operational budget and operational plan. I can dive more into the specifics at some point, but I am of the opinion that when we have people whom declare they are the experts, they can easily provide the previously mentioned. That is all.
For clarity, I have an Urban policy degree, specializing in Local Government Management. It was simple for me to recognize the gaps. It is my opinion that in order to convince those sitting on the fence, you have to provide them with the previously mentioned information. Where I am lost is that some advocates for cityhood have demonized those with questions or differing opinions. I say a healthy debate is in order or all is lost. If there is a NO in November, I point my fingers at those whom have attacked others with questions. That is another discussion.
I agree that you should be concerned with those whom declare they don’t have enough information. In public speaking, it said that the deliverer of the message is responsible for its failure, not the receiver of the message. I promise that providing the operational plan and operational budget would ensure a slam dunk for November 2016. I would be more than happy to work with other on behalf of those whom want to remain unincorporated. Currently, advocates for cityhood are not TRUSTED. It is nothing personal. It is a fact. Again, I would love to discuss further.
BTW, I did view this video. It is great work. I would love to work with you on a more pressing issues, “Opportunity School District” after the May 24th primaries.
Mr. Driskoll I attended the forum and asked questions of the panel and the Fulton County representatives Ray Turner and the Budget Manager who’s name escapes me. I don’t recall hearing the statement about the SSD not paying all costs. Please provide me with those details. Also the two representatives from Georgia State and ACCG (who happens to live in East Point) made a strong point is stating that a new city would not only get the LOST it will be eligible for other funds only available to cities through the state and federal government.
I have produced a Operational Budget for the Proposed City of South Fulton. I created one more than two years ago. I too believe in good straight forward discussion. If your email is correct I will forward to you the budget that I created.
James, my email address is [email protected]
Corroll for me it’s simple. You are being paid $75k and you and meeting your obligations. You’ve always wanted to finish the basement and sock away a bit nore in the 401k. A different company offers you a $20k raise doing basically the same work you’ve done for 10 years. What say you?Personally I like the pioneering spirit. We are an extremely talented community and I have faith that we will do well.
JamesÂ
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The reason why people don’t think people of color can create a new city is because people of color aren’t creating this city.
This is just another Republican Party attempt to divide and dismantle Fulton County. Why are Republicans like Wendell Willard backing this bill? Because with all Fulton County inside cities, they can start firing employees they don’t like under the guise of “We need to reduce the size of Fulton County.”
You and the rest of the Uncle Toms backing this are being bamboozled by white folk who want to keep y’all in your place down in majority black south Fulton.
The reason why people don’t think people of color can create a new city is because people of color aren’t creating this city.
This is just another Republican Party attempt to divide and dismantle Fulton County. Why are Republicans like Wendell Willard backing this bill? Because with all Fulton County inside cities, they can start firing employees they don’t like under the guise of “We need to reduce the size of Fulton County.”
You and the rest of the Uncle Toms backing this are being bamboozled by white folk who want to keep y’all in your place down in majority black south Fulton.
It appears you are the one angry and mad. Your argument has been been reduced to name calling. When you are in burning house does it matter who hand reaches in to help you? It seems to matter very much to you.
@Southfultonfacts Here’s why ya’ll’s argument about commercial property falls flat. First if you knew what you were talking about you would know the sales tax (LOST) in Fulton County is shared with ALL municipalities based on population. No matter if the business is in Alpharetta or Chattahoochee Hills, if it collects the one-cent sales tax the funds are distributed based on population. SECOND no matter the value of the commercial property it PAYS property taxes based on the Assessed Value. FYI the Coca Cola Bottling Company on Buffington has a $4.8 million Fair Market Value and $1.8 million Assessed Value. It pays less than $85k in property taxes each year! Follow the link for proof to see Coca Cola’s tax bill available for everyone to see on Fulton County’s Tax Commissioner’s website
https://www1.fultoncountytaxes.org/property-taxes/TaxBill?ParcelID=13%20-0065-%20%20LL-042-8&Year=
I don’t need to lie to get my point across I can provide proof. The loss of a few businesses is not going to shake up the City of South Fulton.
Next point stop looking back on the values in 2014. Read the SSD Budget for South Fulton. Better still use the Feasibility Study as a guide and update the numbers using the 2016 SSD Budget passed by Board of Commissioners. Those updated numbers are on the rise. Ask Fulton County School too. They are projecting a tax revenue increase for 2017.
Again you are miss leading folks by talking about Fair Market Values. If they don’t know any better they would think the loss of the business equals the loss in revenue based on the FMV. Unfortunately, most folks don’t know any better. Good for you in your attempt to lie and mislead, bad for our cause. We just have to educate people to understand the difference.
If the loss of a few businesses is not going to shake up the City of South Fulton, why did you take to Twitter in a vain attempt to shame Publix out of their annexation.
Too bad your rhetoric doesn’t reflect your record.
Further a person in your position and influence should be ashamed for misleading the public the way you do.
You are entitled to your lies and deceit but not the FACTS and TRUTH. The Fair Market Value (FMV) of commercial and residential property is used to derive the Assessed Value (AV) from there only 40% of the AV is used to determine the property taxes which is what is paid to the County or City. Even then the entire amount is subject to the millage rate which is calculated as the amount per $1,000. The schools, city, county and sometime state take their cut along with various bonds, if applicable. You know all this but you choose to be a Deceitful Spirit. Shame!!!
It’s simple. Unincorporated South Fulton makes that store and that shopping center prosperous. Atlanta residents shop at Kroger because it’s closer and the prices aren’t as high. I know because my late in-laws who lived off Cascade in Atlanta and their neighbors expressed that constantly . For me it’s betrayal much like the betrayal you use when you lie about misleading with the moniker South Fulton Facts. You have done more than anyone to lie about what’s going on in South Fulton. We will prevail because it’s God’s Will.
@James, you will not get any push back from me on viability & talent. For me, it is the messengers and the messaging.
This has been a very interesting thread.
@Corroll you are more than welcome to join and help craft that message. The folks advocating for a city are not professional campaigners but, they are smart hardworking people volunteering their time and monies in some cases to help us maintain and improve our quality of life.
I am on board with messaging.